The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament does not refer to the reincarnation of Jesus at a future time in Jerusalem. It refers to the Holy Spirit.
I’ve wondered for a long time if the topics you addressed in this post were referring to past (to us) events. An evil one that can convince an entire ‘Catholic Church’ to hide the truth so the listeners actually are duped into worshiping him reveals his current power over the earth, but that power and time is finite according to God’s will. Jesus ascended after His resurrection and we are ensured He rules with His Father at His side. The Holy Spirit has immense power and has transformed millions of us to understand Jesus paid the price for our sins and the description of the Holy Spirit is such (as you aptly pointed out) that many of us have been duped for generations now to look to a 2nd coming. Lots to ponder, but it makes perfect sense when we consider the history of the evil one’s influence and Zionism. Much of what we’ve been taught has been manipulated and we must return to trusting in God alone. Faith in Him is eternal once we’ve been given sight through the Holy Spirit. Jesus is still our savior and mediator for us. God bless you for sharing your God-given gifts with us.🙏🙏
I’m pretty sure that the following is a future event:
The Day of the LORD (See also Zephaniah 1:7–18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1–11; 2 Peter 3:8–13)
Malachi 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”
If you think that this refers to the coming of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth; then I think that you are twisting the scriptures.
Obviously, you could be correct and I could be in grotesque error.
The Old Testament is always referring to the Coming Messiah, when you see second coming quotes in the Old Testament. The New Testament is always referring to the Holy Spirit, when you see second coming quotes in the New Testament.
The OT also refers to the 2nd coming of Jesus many times in Psalms, Isaiah and other prophets. The NT also prophecies the 2nd coming of Jesus numerous times and is not 'always referring to the Holy Spirit.' Please read and study ALL of God's words carefully.
<begin quote> For this first post, I am going to refer to the Joseph Smith Translation of the 12th chapter of Luke. It is from this section of scripture that I take the title of my blog and the title of this first entry because it actually provides an incredible reference to the three distinct times when the gospel is dispensed:
"For, behold, he cometh in the FIRST WATCH of the night, and he shall also come in the SECOND WATCH, and he shall come in the THIRD WATCH"
In this chapter of Luke you will find that Christ comes to the earth IN SECRET, like unto a thief in the night, THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.... during three separate "WATCHES" or PERIODS OF TIME DURING WHICH THE DISPENSING OF THE GOSPEL TOOK PLACE UPON THE EARTH.
These three secret appearances take place BEFORE he returns in his glory.
According to the Gospel of Luke, the FIRST WATCH refers to Christ’s earthly ministry in the MERIDIAN OF TIME.<end quote>
I realize that you will reject or dismiss this information, and that is okay. I simply wanted to provide for you an alternative (and heretical) point of reference.
I am aware of this. I am also aware that the vast majority of (so-called) “New Testament Christians” are as apostate as the vast majority of the Jewish people were when Christ tried to reclaim them approximately 1993 years ago.
Christians are as blind to their own apostasy now as Jews were then. Same thing happened with Mormons.
You need to rethink your eschatology if you think Jesus isn't coming back with great power and glory to rapture His believers and then judge the earth via the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl Judgments + Armegeddon (the Gog Magog war is at the end of His 1,000 yr millennial reign on earth when satan is released for a short time). The only real question is the timing of his return - pretrib, prewrath or posttrib. I believe the prewrath is the most Biblically sound....
When He returns is also important in the context of the final 7 years (Daniel's 70th Week). Why? Because many pretribbers who think they will escape the first four Seals (four horsemen- satan and man's wrath on the world) and the Great Tribulation (5th Seal- martyrdom of saints who refuse the mark of the beast and worship of anti-christ) will be totally unprepared for the greatest persecution/martyrdom of Christians in all of history (Matthew 24:21-22). I believe many who aren't truly saved will become totally disillusioned and deceived into believing the anti-christ is Jesus's 2nd coming and accept the mark of the beast (apostasize). Remember Jesus also tells us to know the season of His return (parable of the fig tree) and to watch and be ready.
I put it wrongly. I meant that some people too much focus on finding the date of His coming. I believe that no one avoids last time apocalypse, see Matthew 13:28-30. But the days will be shortened. Worshipping Antichrist may be associated with one world religion doctrine which will be worshipping of “mother nature” while each worshipper will have its own god. So you will be allowed to have Jesus as a personal savior but saying that Jesus is the only savior will not be tolerated. And … who is saved and when? I do not believe once saved, forever saved. We are on a very thin path to our God.
In reference to 1 Thes. 5:1-11, Paul tells them, they had no need to make predictions (it's not available anywhere). Hence why he writes Does a thief in the night announce his coming? The disciples had gotten the same kind of answers to their questions on the Second Coming from Christ Himself (Mt 24:36; Acts 1:6-7). So Christians are called not to set dates but to make themselves ready to meet the Lord by being watchful and sober (v6). Our place is to be ceaselessly aware of the primacy of God's Kingdom and to have full control over our spiritual faculties.
Personally I have no idea what the whole truth of this situation is, I just take in many different opinions on this subject, how can any of us really know the truth? Who knows what verbal conversations that Paul had with the churches, the letters are only a part of his story. Either way, the main thing here is that we shouldn’t argue over this, Satan is laughing at all the division within the current church- we must stick together and support each other! We are living in tough times, we should build each other up, not tear each other down over these things. In the long run does it really matter anyway? We will all die someday and face Jesus, he would be disappointed at the way his people are treating each other🙏
Sir, as an example of how you simply should not be attempting to interpret scripture, here is a passage that very clearly states that Christ will return in bodily form to take the disciples back to where He went at the Right Hand of the Father...
Joh 14:1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
Joh 14:2 “In My Father’s house are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will take you to Myself, so that where I am, there you also will be.
Joh 14:4 “And you know the way where I am going.”
Also, you refer to the rapture as a "physical reincarnation". This is more evidence you simply are too ignorant of biblical issues to be teaching ANYTHING with regard to scripture so just stop with all of your heresy.
The Second Coming of Jesus will be when He comes to claim His throne, which is at the beginning of the Millennium. The song, "Joy To The World" is not about His birth 2,000 years ago, it's about His return, this time as King.
The Rapture is before the Tribulation, the Bride of Christ (the church) will not go through the Tribulation.
I love that you challenge orthodox interpretation on this subject because it is core to Jesus establishing His and only His kingdom on earth. There is no more important theme in the NT. I wish readers would approach your view more respectfully. None of us can claim certainty in the details of the 2nd Coming so let us be gracious in the discussion.
It's an interesting interpretation. I'm currently studying Historical Postmillennialism.
Also, I believe you should be reading the KJV version. Not any of the new modern versions. There are some strong arguments (especially with numerology) that it's the version intended for the English language.
One thing that stands out...We will see him coming on the clouds....the Holy Spirit does come on the clouds. Jesus appeared post crucifixion to many but was not seen coming on the clouds. And he ascended up.
I'm not saying your argument is false. It's highly intriguing. I believe premillennialism and the physical ruling of Jesus on the earth is a lie straight from the devil.
Anyway, working though it. I suggest to all who study eschatology to study all camps. Test them against scripture and search for the mind of the Lord.
I plan to update this as I complete the historical premillennialism by Jim Dodson on sermon audio. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
Jesus tells pilates his kingdom does not come with signs and wonders and you cannot see it here or there....so he told us it would not be physical.
He does come again, at the end, after his kingdom fills the whole earth by the propagation of the Gospel. When He comes it's over. It's at the end of the millennium and judgement occurs. We then are in eternal glory.
The second coming is the final judgement. The son is the one of the Trinity thay executed the judgement, not the spirit. I agree with you there will be no physical kingdom with Christ ruling in Jerusalem...but he himself is coming at the end of the world as we know it to separate the wheat from the tare.
I have appreciated much of your writing. I have great respect for John Wycliffe, along with many other scholars and translators. I have heard many good arguments for flawed translations. This one didn't work for me: not very convincing. I think you need a lot more weight to your point than just Wycliffe. The things you say he states clearly did not read very clearly to me.
I’ve wondered for a long time if the topics you addressed in this post were referring to past (to us) events. An evil one that can convince an entire ‘Catholic Church’ to hide the truth so the listeners actually are duped into worshiping him reveals his current power over the earth, but that power and time is finite according to God’s will. Jesus ascended after His resurrection and we are ensured He rules with His Father at His side. The Holy Spirit has immense power and has transformed millions of us to understand Jesus paid the price for our sins and the description of the Holy Spirit is such (as you aptly pointed out) that many of us have been duped for generations now to look to a 2nd coming. Lots to ponder, but it makes perfect sense when we consider the history of the evil one’s influence and Zionism. Much of what we’ve been taught has been manipulated and we must return to trusting in God alone. Faith in Him is eternal once we’ve been given sight through the Holy Spirit. Jesus is still our savior and mediator for us. God bless you for sharing your God-given gifts with us.🙏🙏
It came upon me like an epiphany in October 2016. Thank you
Thanks 🙏❤️🐸🇺🇸✝️
The Holy Spirit was left behind for us when Jesus ascended, so no. Also, Revelations refers to Jesus's return to earth. You lost me on this one.
I’m pretty sure that the following is a future event:
The Day of the LORD (See also Zephaniah 1:7–18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1–11; 2 Peter 3:8–13)
Malachi 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”
If you think that this refers to the coming of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Truth; then I think that you are twisting the scriptures.
Obviously, you could be correct and I could be in grotesque error.
The Old Testament is always referring to the Coming Messiah, when you see second coming quotes in the Old Testament. The New Testament is always referring to the Holy Spirit, when you see second coming quotes in the New Testament.
The OT also refers to the 2nd coming of Jesus many times in Psalms, Isaiah and other prophets. The NT also prophecies the 2nd coming of Jesus numerous times and is not 'always referring to the Holy Spirit.' Please read and study ALL of God's words carefully.
Also, are you affiliated with the Q movement?
I have a very different perspective on this.
Sorry for the all caps in places, but it’s a cut and paste from this blog post: http://threewatches.blogspot.com/2008/08/for-behold-he-cometh-in-first-watch-of.html?m=1
<begin quote> For this first post, I am going to refer to the Joseph Smith Translation of the 12th chapter of Luke. It is from this section of scripture that I take the title of my blog and the title of this first entry because it actually provides an incredible reference to the three distinct times when the gospel is dispensed:
"For, behold, he cometh in the FIRST WATCH of the night, and he shall also come in the SECOND WATCH, and he shall come in the THIRD WATCH"
In this chapter of Luke you will find that Christ comes to the earth IN SECRET, like unto a thief in the night, THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.... during three separate "WATCHES" or PERIODS OF TIME DURING WHICH THE DISPENSING OF THE GOSPEL TOOK PLACE UPON THE EARTH.
These three secret appearances take place BEFORE he returns in his glory.
According to the Gospel of Luke, the FIRST WATCH refers to Christ’s earthly ministry in the MERIDIAN OF TIME.<end quote>
I realize that you will reject or dismiss this information, and that is okay. I simply wanted to provide for you an alternative (and heretical) point of reference.
You must be aware that New Testament Christians do not consider the Mormon bible authentic.
I am aware of this. I am also aware that the vast majority of (so-called) “New Testament Christians” are as apostate as the vast majority of the Jewish people were when Christ tried to reclaim them approximately 1993 years ago.
Christians are as blind to their own apostasy now as Jews were then. Same thing happened with Mormons.
You need to rethink your eschatology if you think Jesus isn't coming back with great power and glory to rapture His believers and then judge the earth via the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl Judgments + Armegeddon (the Gog Magog war is at the end of His 1,000 yr millennial reign on earth when satan is released for a short time). The only real question is the timing of his return - pretrib, prewrath or posttrib. I believe the prewrath is the most Biblically sound....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwXoMNpOhos
When He comes is not as important as that He comes. Let’ s be ready!
When He returns is also important in the context of the final 7 years (Daniel's 70th Week). Why? Because many pretribbers who think they will escape the first four Seals (four horsemen- satan and man's wrath on the world) and the Great Tribulation (5th Seal- martyrdom of saints who refuse the mark of the beast and worship of anti-christ) will be totally unprepared for the greatest persecution/martyrdom of Christians in all of history (Matthew 24:21-22). I believe many who aren't truly saved will become totally disillusioned and deceived into believing the anti-christ is Jesus's 2nd coming and accept the mark of the beast (apostasize). Remember Jesus also tells us to know the season of His return (parable of the fig tree) and to watch and be ready.
I put it wrongly. I meant that some people too much focus on finding the date of His coming. I believe that no one avoids last time apocalypse, see Matthew 13:28-30. But the days will be shortened. Worshipping Antichrist may be associated with one world religion doctrine which will be worshipping of “mother nature” while each worshipper will have its own god. So you will be allowed to have Jesus as a personal savior but saying that Jesus is the only savior will not be tolerated. And … who is saved and when? I do not believe once saved, forever saved. We are on a very thin path to our God.
Just as God didn't destroy Sodom until Lot was removed, He won't allow the Tribulation to begin until the Church, not denominations, is removed.
I'm sorry, the Greek translation of the word εἰς is the crux of your argument. It is clear 1 Thessalonians 4:15 uses εἰς in the form of UNTIL. Here is a site to reference: https://www.greekbible.com/1-thessalonians/4/15 as well as https://www.abarim-publications.com/Concordance/II/c-1519-13.html . Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians because the Thessalonian Christians had been speculating about the return of the Lord and making their own predictions.
In reference to 1 Thes. 5:1-11, Paul tells them, they had no need to make predictions (it's not available anywhere). Hence why he writes Does a thief in the night announce his coming? The disciples had gotten the same kind of answers to their questions on the Second Coming from Christ Himself (Mt 24:36; Acts 1:6-7). So Christians are called not to set dates but to make themselves ready to meet the Lord by being watchful and sober (v6). Our place is to be ceaselessly aware of the primacy of God's Kingdom and to have full control over our spiritual faculties.
Sorry, you are off the track, hopefully not intentionally. Our Lord, Jesus Christ have had every time, every situation under control:
Matthew 26:53 “Do you think I cannot call my Father, and he will put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?”
Revelation 1:7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds and every eye will see Him”
I wish you repent and get back on track. The King of kings will return to what belongs to Him and to those who belong to Him.
Personally I have no idea what the whole truth of this situation is, I just take in many different opinions on this subject, how can any of us really know the truth? Who knows what verbal conversations that Paul had with the churches, the letters are only a part of his story. Either way, the main thing here is that we shouldn’t argue over this, Satan is laughing at all the division within the current church- we must stick together and support each other! We are living in tough times, we should build each other up, not tear each other down over these things. In the long run does it really matter anyway? We will all die someday and face Jesus, he would be disappointed at the way his people are treating each other🙏
Sir, as an example of how you simply should not be attempting to interpret scripture, here is a passage that very clearly states that Christ will return in bodily form to take the disciples back to where He went at the Right Hand of the Father...
Joh 14:1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
Joh 14:2 “In My Father’s house are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will take you to Myself, so that where I am, there you also will be.
Joh 14:4 “And you know the way where I am going.”
Also, you refer to the rapture as a "physical reincarnation". This is more evidence you simply are too ignorant of biblical issues to be teaching ANYTHING with regard to scripture so just stop with all of your heresy.
Finish the verses Daniel. Here's the rest of John 14 that you just so happened to leave out:
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
As you can see Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit. Also notice he says no one COMES to the Father except through me.
Don't ever call me a heretic again.
Anon_fa_mous, just one comment. A Bible translation's accuracy must not be judged by the year, but by the accuracy to the original text.
Wycliffe was the first translation into Europe, but it was translated from Latin. A lot can be missed in that.
Since, there are translations straight from the original Greek and Hebrew which bear some looking at.
The Second Coming of Jesus will be when He comes to claim His throne, which is at the beginning of the Millennium. The song, "Joy To The World" is not about His birth 2,000 years ago, it's about His return, this time as King.
The Rapture is before the Tribulation, the Bride of Christ (the church) will not go through the Tribulation.
I love that you challenge orthodox interpretation on this subject because it is core to Jesus establishing His and only His kingdom on earth. There is no more important theme in the NT. I wish readers would approach your view more respectfully. None of us can claim certainty in the details of the 2nd Coming so let us be gracious in the discussion.
It's an interesting interpretation. I'm currently studying Historical Postmillennialism.
Also, I believe you should be reading the KJV version. Not any of the new modern versions. There are some strong arguments (especially with numerology) that it's the version intended for the English language.
One thing that stands out...We will see him coming on the clouds....the Holy Spirit does come on the clouds. Jesus appeared post crucifixion to many but was not seen coming on the clouds. And he ascended up.
I'm not saying your argument is false. It's highly intriguing. I believe premillennialism and the physical ruling of Jesus on the earth is a lie straight from the devil.
Anyway, working though it. I suggest to all who study eschatology to study all camps. Test them against scripture and search for the mind of the Lord.
I plan to update this as I complete the historical premillennialism by Jim Dodson on sermon audio. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
Correction studying Historical POSTMILLENNIALISM
Jesus tells pilates his kingdom does not come with signs and wonders and you cannot see it here or there....so he told us it would not be physical.
He does come again, at the end, after his kingdom fills the whole earth by the propagation of the Gospel. When He comes it's over. It's at the end of the millennium and judgement occurs. We then are in eternal glory.
The second coming is the final judgement. The son is the one of the Trinity thay executed the judgement, not the spirit. I agree with you there will be no physical kingdom with Christ ruling in Jerusalem...but he himself is coming at the end of the world as we know it to separate the wheat from the tare.
I have appreciated much of your writing. I have great respect for John Wycliffe, along with many other scholars and translators. I have heard many good arguments for flawed translations. This one didn't work for me: not very convincing. I think you need a lot more weight to your point than just Wycliffe. The things you say he states clearly did not read very clearly to me.
There still exists an afterlife, correct? And would we live said afterlife here on Earth or in Heaven?
Of course there's an afterlife and the New Jerusalem/City of God will also be on earth during the Millennium and the Eternal Kingdom...
https://bibleprophecydaily.com/janet-willis/
https://www.amazon.com/What-Earth-Heaven-Like-Jerusalem/dp/1516815130